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[Daniel] Member Posts: 54 From:Bad Aibling, Bavaria, Germany Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 12-20-2001 12:21 PM Hi, well, I think, youīll always forget one thing while closing threads: I think, it doesnīt seem that you can discuss very well. For example, letīs look at tümmlers thread "god?". Well, I understand the reason for closing this thread, but the things you do are always the same: Reading a post which is not very nice (for what reason ever...) and closing/editing/deleting this post . Well, itīs not very good to close always a thread if you have the mod rights. You should better answer and discuss with the users. Look, there were enough mods a while ago, mods, who were longer mods as you and now youīre the only one left . What did you do half a year ago when reading such a post? You didnīt have the rights for closing the threat. If you wanted to show that you was right, you had to answer. And now you think you donīt have to answer because you can easily close this threat. Thatīs not good. Well, in fact you donīt have to answer, but it isnīt very good for the community if all the argues (I donīt know the right word ) are finished by using rights that other people donīt have. Think about this, youīre loosing your authority because itīs not always the best solution to ignore problems and closing topics. I donīt want to attack you with this topic, but I want to give you something to think...nobody is perfect, I knoe, but you can avoid mistakes by talking about the things we donīt like at your desicions, but you canīt avoid mistakes if you ignore them. Please answer before closing this topic thx daniel IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 12-20-2001 12:30 PM Hi Daniel, I closed those topics because they were offensive and provoking fights I have tried to communicate with the people in question privately via e-mail, but they weren't willing to discuss it, didn't reply and started posting my e-mails on a different forum, which resulted in bashing so please keep in mind this forum is for the discussion of TRLE related issiues, not for personal matters I will never ignore a reasonable question, so if you have any, feel free to e-mail me and I will do my best to answer you and don't worry, you have said nothing offensive, so I won't close/delete this thread ps. I don't close threads just because I have "the power", but because it is an Eidos rule, I am here for YOU, keeping the forum clean of hatefull and offensive text [This message has been edited by Driber_IF (edited 12-20-2001).] IP: Logged
[Daniel] Member Posts: 54 From:Bad Aibling, Bavaria, Germany Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 12-20-2001 12:34 PM btw, oh well, you understood my bad English?great IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 12-20-2001 12:37 PM well, I had to grab my dictionairy a couple of times, but I managed just kidding, I'm not English myself either, but I try my best IP: Logged
moose562 Member Posts: 1956 From:London, England Registered: Dec 2000 | posted 12-21-2001 11:54 AM I personally think it is only out of courtesy that anyone of a higher authority who closes a thread for any reason should reveal why they closed/editted the thread/post. It doesn't seem fair to close a thread and not reveal why the decision was made. The member may not realise their offensive behaviour and therefore would need to be told where they were going wrong. If they are not told, they won't learn. Also, privately emailing those responsible might be a good idea, but it also has its bad points. As Driber said, they may not reply etc, but also it is crucial that other members see the developments and we can learn from others mistakes. To further my comments I would also like to point out that by not leaving any reason for the member to see why their post was closed or reply editted gives them the idea that the moderator dislikes them (I have experience) or as mentioned somwhere above, a lack of respect between higher forces and members grows. This brings about the collapse of the communities all members have been actively trying to save. I have my wise head on today so I am using it at will.....beware!!! lol I hope everyone can go from this reply with a wider perspective. Even I have learnt from myself in the time it took to write this reply. Peace out Moose562 ------------------ Dare to cross a MOOSEY STUB and CARAMBAAA --he'll become your highbunder of doom Overwhelmed to be Stub 12 Fellowship of the Natla-ers Member Number 2 Founded By SSS IP: Logged
Wee Bald Man Member Posts: 540 From:Simple Mud Hut (Near Twisted Gnarltree), The Swamp, Dagobah, Distant Sluis Sector of the Outer Rim Territories Registered: May 2001 | posted 12-21-2001 01:29 PM I think that the way Driber moderates is excellent. He's very diplomatic and works very hard to answer questions. So it's a big thumbs up from me and thanks Driber for spending so much time on maintaining the TRLE forum. I know from my gruelling two months of being a mod that it is a difficult and thankless job so I am very appreciative of your efforts. WBM IP: Logged
moose562 Member Posts: 1956 From:London, England Registered: Dec 2000 | posted 12-21-2001 02:21 PM The reason it appears a "thankless" task is because of closed threads without any explaination. It immediately creates barriers. Think about it. Oh and WBM I couldn't agree more. I think Driber moderates moderately (geddit)....ok enough jokes!!! Driber rock on, ok?! ------------------ Overwhelmed to be Stub 12 Thehighbunder of doom Fellowship of the Natla-ers Member Number 2 Founded By SSS IP: Logged
John. Lincoln Member Posts: 585 From:england uk Registered: Oct 2001 | posted 12-21-2001 02:45 PM yeah here here for driber IP: Logged
TRoosevelt_26 Member Posts: 337 From:Akhetaton, Egypt Registered: Dec 2001 | posted 12-21-2001 07:32 PM Ditto that! IP: Logged
tommy tomb raider Member Posts: 445 From:Kalamazoo, Mi. U.S.A Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 12-21-2001 08:49 PM Driber is doing an excellent job of keeping this forum clear of non-TRLE related rubbish. As were the 'mods' before him. The job of moderator is not one of fame and fortune, rather a title of responsibility and dedication! He who accepts that title also accepts the consequences of offending a few in an effort to maintain a TOPIC RELATED forum for the majority to visit and benefit from. If all moderators of any/all forums were able to be manipulated or their convictions swayed by 'Public opinion' , then the position of 'Moderator' (however unappreciated) is reduced to that of 'Member with power'!(which many seem to think it is) IT IS NOT! Speaking for myself and I think most past and present (future?) moderators of this and other forums, the job is a (usually) thankless one that requires a great deal of time and commitment to a voluntary position. Not because we need to see our "name in lights", but because we have decided to help in maintaining a worth while endeavor and are trying to keep it aimed in the right direction and free of distracting and obusive content(fights and arguments). In agreement with Moose's comment, simply closing or deleting a thread without giving a reason is unacceptable; however, usually the content of the thread itself will explain the reason for it's being closed. And moving a thread to another forum (O.T.,Series,etc...)and closing it here, does not mean the topic is not appreciated, rather that it belongs elsewhere! In the rare instance that a thread is deleted, it is either by the original posters decision, or because it is completely out of hand to start with or has no possible benefit to the community. So, in short, closing, deleting, and editing threads is not something that is done with a passe' attitude, it is serious business that requires thought and reason! If the members posting threads/replies gave half as much consideration to their comments as the moderators give to closing them, then there would be considerably less 'hard feelings', and we could all return to the COMMUNITY that we really are! Tom [This message has been edited by tommy tomb raider (edited 12-21-2001).] IP: Logged
Wee Bald Man Member Posts: 540 From:Simple Mud Hut (Near Twisted Gnarltree), The Swamp, Dagobah, Distant Sluis Sector of the Outer Rim Territories Registered: May 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 02:26 AM Hi tommy tomb raider, You have described PRECISELY my experience of, and feelings about, being a moderator. It may save many hours of frantic typing and little red angry faces if we could put your description of the role in to the 'TRLE FAQ and Community' link under the heading: "Just what the heck is a moderator anyway?" WBM ------------------ When asked, "What do you think of Western Civilisation?" Mahatma Ghandi replied, "It would be a good idea." [This message has been edited by Wee Bald Man (edited 12-22-2001).] IP: Logged
KrisGR Member Posts: 444 From:Athens-Greece Registered: Oct 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 02:42 AM I agree with John.Lincoln IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 10:19 AM thank you to everyone who supports me and sees I'm really one of you guys who just has the ability to access tools that help keep the forum a happy place I will now answer Moose's questions, my replies will be marked in bold text: quote: Originally posted by moose562: I personally think it is only out of courtesy that anyone of a higher authority who closes a thread for any reason should reveal why they closed/edited the thread/post. in the rare occasion I don't post an explanation, the reason for closing it is very obvious and in my opinion clear to see if you just read the posts in the thread. when I edit posts, it's usually because of offensive content and I usually do not give warnings in the edited post, because that can lead to people counter to that warning if they do not agree. so in that case, I just filter out the "bad words" and e-mail the poster privately, explaining calmly what they have posted is not material for the TRLE forum and I kindly ask them not to do it again. if the member simply replies with an agreement, I am glad he/she understands that offensive language is not tolerated here, but unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. sometimes the member whom I e-mailed privately, does not reply to my e-mail if he/she does not agree with it, but he/she posts my e-mails on the forum, trying to get support from other people and provoking fights. we have recently experienced this with Silent Viper, who kept provoking fights on here after I warned him not to. we "silenced" him for it, but after ignoring the dreaded message "you have no permission to post on this forum", he quickly registered a new account and trying to provoke more fights by posting under his new name, which someone is not allowed to do once been banned. so in short, it is not always wise to post why a thread has been closed, a post has been edited or deleted, to keep the forum clean of fights. so in that case, I just e-mail the person privately, but I never intentionally leave someone in the dark It doesn't seem fair to close a thread and not reveal why the decision was made. The member may not realise their offensive behaviour and therefore would need to be told where they were going wrong. If they are not told, they won't learn. Also, privately emailing those responsible might be a good idea, but it also has its bad points. As Driber said, they may not reply etc, but also it is crucial that other members see the developments and we can learn from others mistakes. if all members were open for reason, it would be much easier, but not everyone possesses this ability. if a person is not willing to listen to reason, or even reply to my comments, drastic actions such as closing threads or even banning have to be taken. I don't enjoy flipping that switch, because I feel it's a waste of time for me, but also for the member who is provoking fights. there are so many things out there in the real world that you can spend your time on. I usually see that when people start causing fights and turn people against each other and trying to manipulate other members to get their hate towards a moderator spread, is something done as a result of loneliness. I have figured this pattern out a long time ago: the fighting usually is at a peak on Saturday nights. when everyone is out clubbing and partying, a Troll sits behind his computer and hates it that he's not "out there" as well, so he tries to fill a void by making virtual fights, this works like an aphrodisiac and the person forgets about his loneliness for a while please note that this does not apply to everyone who is online on Saturday nights and I don't intent to offend anyone by this, because I too have spend Saturday nights on here, only I use it for positive contribution so I merely want to point out one of the possible reasons for people's attempt to start a virtual fight I'm writing this, so people can draw their own conclusion from this and I hope this will open people's eyes to get out there and do something useful with their lives, instead of trying to turn people against each other and trying to make them look bad by accusing them behind their backs for things they did not do So I hope my bit will help people understand that there's more to life and I hope these words are of any use. To further my comments I would also like to point out that by not leaving any reason for the member to see why their post was closed or reply edited gives them the idea that the moderator dislikes them (I have experience) or as mentioned somewhere above, a lack of respect between higher forces and members grows. This brings about the collapse of the communities all members have been actively trying to save. Let me make this clear once and for all: I do NOT close, delete or edit something because I don't like the person who posted it. I am very professional and I do not let any personal feelings get in the way of moderating this forum. I moderate fair and by the rules and if some people see this as a personal attack, then they have got the wrong picture of me. People who are really close to me, know that I am a completely honest person who doesn't lie. I know that there are some people out there who still think I'm playing a game and taking actions just for personal reasons.....and I'm really sorry they feel that way, but I can assure you that's simply not true, as I always play by the book I have my wise head on today so I am using it at will.....beware!!! lol I hope everyone can go from this reply with a wider perspective. Even I have learnt from myself in the time it took to write this reply. I'm curious, what have you learned? It might be useful for us all if you tell us Peace out Moose562 [/B] So to sum it all up: I am always open for a reasonable conversation, I give a lot of my free time to this forum, I play by the book, I'm honest and I will never ignore questions about the way the forum is being run, I do appreciate and listen to everyone's input, as long as the question is calmly asked, because I won't respond to personal attacks And these are the characteristics needed for moderating a professional forum, as been set by the forum administrators. I'm sorry to ramble on this far and I know some of you might see this as OT, but it is not, for it is an attempt to help move our community into a more positive direction and it's related to the way the forum is being run [This message has been edited by Driber_IF (edited 12-22-2001).] IP: Logged
Data Member Posts: 1072 From:Omicron Theta science colony Registered: May 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 10:52 AM Hmm, curious.... I believed only Commander Hutchinson, who was based at Arkaria before his untimely death, was capable of such indescribable quantum conversations, however, I do now believe you are a strong contender to take his place. ------------------ 'ZING' is not a word that I am familiar with, however I will make an exception to 'YOINK'. IP: Logged
[Daniel] Member Posts: 54 From:Bad Aibling, Bavaria, Germany Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 11:10 AM hmm..I didnīt want to make a discussion with this thread now I think driber is doing an excellent job, too. Sometimes I was only a little bit surprised of closing threads without saying the reason for that. So it seemed to me that driber didnīt want to discuss and so I wrote this topic, but now I know that I was wrong. Well, Iīm very surprised about the discussion because of the topic Iīve written. Feel free to keep on discussing, but I would like to stop that topic now cu daniel IP: Logged
moose562 Member Posts: 1956 From:London, England Registered: Dec 2000 | posted 12-22-2001 01:47 PM quote: Originally posted by [Daniel]: but now I know that I was wrong You were not wrong at all. Your input was just as valid as everyone elses. Oh and Driber, I am not going to repeat myself. I think you should read my post again if you can't see what I have learnt. I explained it all there. Gosh, I sounded like a moderator there IP: Logged
qbg Member Posts: 347 From:Newtown, Powys, Wales Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 12-22-2001 02:57 PM After reading Dribers speech( ), my eyes hurt from staring at the screen. I do agree with him. I admire his moderating skills. It can be annoying to see my topics close, but I do see the topic drifting away to oblivion. Oh, and Driber, don't feel embarrased about us talking about you. IP: Logged
aktrekker Member Posts: 888 From:WA, USA Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 12-23-2001 05:08 AM You're doing great Driber. There are always some complainers. I haven't seen any of the topics being referred to, and I figure that's a good thing. Remember what it was like before the mods. IP: Logged
KrisGR Member Posts: 444 From:Athens-Greece Registered: Oct 2001 | posted 12-23-2001 05:36 AM I think what Driber wrote explains a lot to some people.I have to say that from the time i registered here i had some complaints for the treatment i had from some members and not only from TRLE.All the mods and especially Driber helped me and also advised me at a time my anger got out of hand because i felt so hurt and offended.Maybe we don't understand some times why some threads are closed but when i have a question like that i am always going back to the rules and the answer is there.I don't remember all of them but when i am reading carefully i see their point of view.I mean mods point of view.I just want to say that i don't have a doubt on my mind that their intensions are good and their heart in the right place.Of course they are only human and they are entitled to make a mistake.If that comes at a time i hope they will recognize it and correct it.I also want to thank Sage for his help when he was a mod. [This message has been edited by KrisGR (edited 12-23-2001).] IP: Logged
moose562 Member Posts: 1956 From:London, England Registered: Dec 2000 | posted 12-23-2001 05:56 AM I hope people dont think i believe moderators intesions are not good, cos i know they are. i just think as a RULE it is only polite to disclose why a thread was closed or editted. i like it when mods edit posts and tell why it was editted. that is fine, it is when it isn't it annoys me. dribe has always as far as i can remember, offered explainations for himself. Although others mods around can't claim that and believe they are excempt from this. that is wrong and unfair. it causes barriers instantly. cant anyone see this? i guess i am screaming in the desert again, huh? merci 4 your time IP: Logged
KrisGR Member Posts: 444 From:Athens-Greece Registered: Oct 2001 | posted 12-23-2001 06:08 AM Yes moose562 i understand what you are saying.I didn't write that their intensions are good to imply that other members think their not.Please don't take that the wrong way.Although the rules are clear that the mods or admin. don't have to give an explanation at all it is nice when they give one for a closed or deleted thread.But most of the time the reason it's very obvious as Driber explained.I hear you loud and clear my friend. IP: Logged
moose562 Member Posts: 1956 From:London, England Registered: Dec 2000 | posted 12-23-2001 06:30 AM i love everyone here ------------------ Overwhelmed to be Stub 13 The highbunder of doom Fellowship of the Natla-ers Member Number 2 Founded By SSS IP: Logged
[Daniel] Member Posts: 54 From:Bad Aibling, Bavaria, Germany Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 12-23-2001 08:41 AM Hi driber, I only wanted to say that silent viper has also been banned form the German Forum already before he registered here in the US forum. He had very bad topics in the German forum and provoked fights as often as he could (as you said). He has been banned 3 times by the german Admin, but he doesnīt give up. So I suggest not to allwod any names containing the words "Net St@lker, Stalker, Silent Viper, [BSE], CS, Counterstrike, clan." These are his favorite names for a new registration. After he was banned by you on friday he kept complaining about your behavior together with fips in 2 "waste topics" in the German LE forum. I want to say with that, that you have to be very carefull with him. I think, thereīll be a lot of work with SV for you.....unfortunately cu daniel IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 01-04-2002 05:03 PM thanks you for the tip Daniel, I will keep my eyes open as always and not to worry, we always find a Troll's account in the end, for we have been through a mod S.E.A.L. training, Trolls might not give up that easily, but neither do we IP: Logged
Colin Grigson Member Posts: 850 From:LONDON, ENGLAND Registered: Jan 2001 | posted 01-05-2002 05:10 AM Go Lowin, Go Lowin!!! Col. ------------------ Home of the TRLE Chatbox IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 01-05-2002 11:56 AM I wish to give a big thanks to Wee Bald Man, John Lincoln, TRoosevelt_26, tommy tomb raider, KrisGR, Data, qbg, aktrekker, moose562, Daniel, Colin Grigson and everyone else who have supported me. But now, I'm afraid I must leave you all, for I am quitting my mod positi.....errrr....not! lol seriously, this thread has proven that it's possible to resolve issues if they are calmly discussed, which ultimately leads this forum into a more positive direction where people can better focus on level editing IP: Logged
tombs_on_the_brain Member Posts: 186 From:A little to left of you... Registered: Jun 2001 | posted 01-06-2002 11:02 AM i would just like to say, it took me longer to read this thread than a work by shakespear. I also would like to congratulate driber for his wonder abilities that he shows while moderating this forum Up with Driber!!! *Falls Over Unconscious* ------------------ Check Out My Site!!! http://www.geocities.com/base_station_trle IP: Logged
[Daniel] Member Posts: 54 From:Bad Aibling, Bavaria, Germany Registered: Nov 2001 | posted 01-07-2002 08:01 AM quote: Originally posted by Driber_IF: seriously, this thread has proven that it's possible to resolve issues if they are calmly discussed, which ultimately leads this forum into a more positive direction where people can better focus on level editing nothing more to say thatīs what I wanted to "make" (uhh....I have to improve my English vocabulary ASAP ) with this topic IP: Logged
Tompie Dupe Junior Member Posts: 16 From:Paris, France Registered: Dec 2001 | posted 01-08-2002 06:35 AM I believe "make" should be "achieve" IP: Logged
Sam Burke Member Posts: 47 From:Great Britain Registered: Jan 2002 | posted 01-11-2002 01:36 PM OK, I would make an apoligy to anyone who been upset by remarks. I am deeply sorry for any anger caused. This is the main reason I have changed my name. IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 01-13-2002 10:13 AM ok Lil Kid, first I want to point out that registering a new screenname can't undo the past. secondly, I would like to know what you were trying to achieve with making OT threads and then complaining about me for not closing them, while I was on vacation? IP: Logged
Sam Burke Member Posts: 47 From:Great Britain Registered: Jan 2002 | posted 01-14-2002 02:01 AM Yes, chaging my screen name won't be the solution, but it will help a little bit. Secondaly, I didn't know you were on vacation, if I knew, I wouln't of complained. The only reson I opened the birthday topic was because I thought I would be nice to put into the Community page, it was just and idea. But I do hope you understood my worries that this forum wasn't being propley run, but now you are back, it is. I hope you, and everyone else understands. Sam. P.S. I'm am currently making new WAD's, do you want to host them on your site Driber? ------------------ Have a nice day! IP: Logged
Driber_IF Moderator Posts: 2182 From:Den Haag, The Netherlands Registered: Apr 2001 | posted 01-14-2002 02:24 AM Sam (and everyone else), you have to understand that being a moderators doesn't mean you have to have a schedule to patrol the forums. As it is a voluntary job, there is no rule you can't be away from the forum for a while, so it's most certainly not a DUTY to browse the forums every single day. But if there are complaints about moderators, it is common courtesy not to post them on the forum, but to e-mail it to the moderator privately. Making such threads only start fights and as you have seen, other members will jump in and drag up things from the past that doesn't have anything to do with the initial topic, but only contribute in the fight by throwing gasoline on the flames. If you understand that and see that complaints should be e-mailed in private, you apologies will be accepted. --- about hosting wads: check your e-mail IP: Logged

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